Grand Slam 3/Grand Slam 3.iso/026/idig45.arj/IDIG45.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1995-03-04 | 83KB

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:01 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1588] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Wed, 1 Mar 95 02:32 EET, "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> >Easy, either get them from a GUS user friend, get the UltraSound experience
> >CD, ftp them, etc. :)
> Does CP _need_ the GUS patchs?  If it would be possible to play this stuff
> in software and you had the RAM, you could use nice things like the
> Bosendopher and all the other nice huge patches you wanted.
Well, it doesn't need the GUS patches if you don't play MIDIs on CP. Of
coz, if you already use a GUS/GUSMax, you'll probably have those patches
already. Of coz, you can also use other patches like propats, (not all at
one go, of coz).

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:44 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1595] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

> Hi,
>       Does anyone know if I can use the GUS patches to compose with in
> Scream Traker?  Thanks
>
> Jamie McCarter
> [e-mail]
I don't know about your prob. directly, but if you can get them in .WAV format,
I think I know of a util that can convert to .SMP (Scream Tracker Samples)
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:42 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1593] MIDI? Why?

Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:

Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
        most songs).
Any instrument you want.
You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
It's nowhere near as confusing.
It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
        I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
        equipment.

I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:21 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1592] SoundCard Vote

I don't think my original vote got through, but please check before adding
me to your list. My name is Andrew Ferrier. I have an SB-16. I have posted
this message to the list because many people are collecting votes. Perhaps
we could agree on just one person to prevent arguments?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:50 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1596] Re: GUS vs SB

> On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:
>
> >  Gravis Ultrasound: 7
> >  Creative Labs:     6
> >  Pro Audio Spectrum:4
> >  Other (Roland):    1
> > Two cards:
> >  SBcompatible + GUS:3
> > There are more GUS cards than Sond Blasters!
> > BUT: There are more SB compatible ones than GUS ones.
> >      About half of the GUSsers and half of the SB owners have both
> >      cards in his machine...
> > I think still that we have not enough datas to make a correct
> > statistics.
>
> I think this data is relatively accurate for the people on this list and
> the people who follow the scene, but as a whole the data is way off.  I'm
> sure a higher percentage of people who own GUS's follow the demo scene as
> compared to everybody else with a Soundblaster.  I'm sure I could find
> several SB owners who have never seen a demo or heard a .mod file.  But
> then again, who cares.... it's just a survey for fun!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Jacob Cossairt's signature:     ! @   @ ! E-mail: [e-mail]
> Senior - Bronson High School    !   <   ! RIME: ->5287 or ->DRAGCIT  |  | * |
> Fall '95: Freshman - University ! `---' ! Fidonet: 1:2201/41.4       |--| | |
> of Michigan/ Ann Arbor majoring !!!!!!!!! Echonet: Not anymore!      |  | | *
> in Computer Engineering           WWW: http://kecomp.reshall.umich.edu/~jacob/
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
First of all, the votes collected so far are nowhere near statistically valid.
I suggest we discuss who this survey is meant to be for i.e.

All sound card owners?
People who play MODs?
People who use IPlay?
Or What?.....

Perhaps we could enlist the help of other newsgroups/mail lists etc. ?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 22:38 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1598] Re: GUS vs SB

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

> "Juwan" <[e-mail]>                        SB-16 + Maui
> "Jimmy Wan" <[e-mail]>                    SB + TB Maui

Err, I changed my handle back to my name, and I sent you a message since
I didn't see it on there last time.  Now you've got me on there twice.
Sorry!  =)


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 22:56 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1600] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> That has it's problems too. How do you handle non-instrument tracks in a
> mod (such as speech)? Additionally, you would then be limited by the
> quality of the midi synth. This becomes a real problem for FM cards.

If you do something like this, you can't use it on FM cards, you can only
do it if it has RAM for samples, or else you have to use the CPU to
process the sound for a Wave Driver, a la MOD4WIN.

> I am not familiar with Midas but I would suspect it would not be as
> accurate as MOD4WIN. I also suspect that the overall results would be too
> far removed from the original work. I really don't know since I have not
> tried it.

Try it.  It is on hornet.  It is called Midas or WMIDAS.  It's in two
different directories.  Under /demos/music/programs/players and something
else like /demos/music/source or something.  Check it out.  It is
supposed to wrok really well for the GUS.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 22:44 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1599] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> Yes, you could do that but it is heavy duty work. The GUS MAX comes with a
> utility called PatchMaker that does just that. It allows you to start out
> with a wave sample, massage it and save it in the GUS's .pat format.I'm
> sure that there are others. The more sensible approach is to start out
> with the standard GUS patches and then selectively replace those that you
> particularly dislike. So far I've replaced the fx rain patch (aurora.pat)
> with one that I sampled from my Multisound Classic. It is a time consuming
> effort to get good results. I sure wouldn't want to do the same for the
> other 191 patches!

Is the GUS or the GUS Max capable of multisampling?  I know my Maui is,
and I also know that things sound a lot worse when you only have one or
two samples per instrument.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:08 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1601] Re: MIDI? Why?


On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
> got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
> by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
> why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:

    Sorry about the followup to your offtopic post..  :)  Ok.  MIDIs,
with a decent MIDI synth can sound WAY better than most mods do.  Why?
The instrument quality is not limited by disk space.  Ok.  44 kHz 16 bit
samples?  Wow, that's going to make your mod be one of those 600-800K
ones that sounds oh-so nice.  (Example:  Dreams Of Deez:  XM.  16 bit
samples.  No sampled guitar riffs or vocals.  900 !@$!$ K!  Excellent
sound quality.  (Unbelievable stereo panning, but that's got nothing to
do with the filesize)  Now if this were a MIDI file, it would be about
9K.  Sure, on a FM synth cheapo sound card (no offence) it will sound
like crap.  But plug that into a sound canvas, or a GUS (or SB) that has
a MIDI out going into some high-end synth like a Korg WaveStation or
something, and it'll simply blow your socks off.  Why?  Because they can
afford to have HUGE samples, since they're compressed on ROM, rather than
sitting around eating up your hard disk space.  MIDI is a lot more like
"Here's the basic score, do what you can with it with the hardware
available." while mods tend to have a "I want it to sound EXACTLY like
_THIS_."  With crappy hardware, good mod routines can bludgeon decent
sound quality out of it.  With decent hardware, mediocre mod routines can
extract good sound quality.  With excellent hardware, no mod routine can
do better than the "THIS" that the author said he wanted it to sound
like.  If you have 22000 samples a second, no ammount of finageling will
get true 44.1 kHz quality.  That's all there is to it.  With a MIDI file,
with crappy hardware, it will sound like crap (FM synthesis) with medium
hardware it will sound pretty good (GUS, WB, etc), and with incredible
(in orther words, way expensive) hardware, it will sound unbelievable.

> Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
>         most songs).

    Yeah.  MIDI files don't really have a limit on how many tracks
are active.  The limitation tends to be in the hardware.  (The GUS software
play routines can be told to cram it into 14 channels, or spread it over
32 channels, or anywhere between.)  In MIDI files, as many notes as you
want can be happening on one "channel".

> Any instrument you want.

    Ok.  Here is a point for mods.  But 192 instruments IS a lot.
And if you want you can probably mix them to make it sound like more.

> You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.

    Properly?  You can compose MIDI files without a keyboard.  (I
tried it once.  It sounded about as bad as my attempt to write a MOD.
Either way, you still need some talent. :/ )  Some people say that the
only to compose music is with a tracker.  Some say they need a keyboard
interaface.  Some say they want to be able to click on a staff.  It's all
a matter of taste.

> It's nowhere near as confusing.

    Neither format confuses me.  Mods are simply a different paradigm
from MIDI.  Which is why I was so surprised to see CP supported MIDI.

> It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
>         I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
>         equipment.

    These days, a sound card is almost standard.  MIDI will play on
any sound card I know of that has Windows drivers, with the exception of the
Disney Sound Source.  (Which only has digitzized output.)

>
> I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
> most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.

    If this is so, it is because Creative Labs or Gravis or whoever
did not invest enoguh time or money into making their samples.  Or that
they didn't have enough memory to hold what was needed.  Or you don't
like the style of music that MIDI authors tend to write. :)  (In general
MIDI lends itself towards music involving classical instruments, etc.
Instruments with widely varying sounds, such as an electric guitar,
rarely sound as well done.)  Compare the best classical MOD you've heard
to the best classical MIDI file you've heard.  I think that (unless
you're hearing FM synths (Your sb 16.  Sorry.)) the MIDI file will
surpass the MOD.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:05 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1569] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Jesse Ozog <GE> wrote:

> I don't see why more games are not programmed to use mod files (like
> StarCon II).  I think that DOOM and the other mid using gmaes would have
> been a hell of a lot better off using mods that way, and insted of
> plopping in some MID files, just use one of your fav mod files or the sort.
>  But that is just my ears, I prefer the mod/s3m/xm/ult  format over the mid
> sound.  Wouldn't it also be easier to program?

Well, for one thing, a lot of people have things such as MIDI boards or
external sound modules that can play awesome MIDI with virtually no CPU
usage.  That is something that most sound cards can't do when playing
MOD's.


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 01:46 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1610] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

Hi,
    Does anyone know of a utility to convert GUS patches to WAV or
VOC.  And then (possibly a separate util) to .SMP (Scream Tracker Samples)?

    Thanks in advance.

_____________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
                 "Live Long and Render"



-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 02:25 EET
From: keith d shapiro <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1611] .rmi -> .mid cvtr?

sorry to go off topic (sb v. gus and mid v. mod), but i just had a real quick
question.  I have several .rmi midi files for windows.  now i have cubic player
and want to hear them thru the gus patches (i have a pas16 for the poll).  is
there a converter out there somewhere to convert the .rmi midis into the
standard .mid midis?  if there is, could you please advise me where i can find
it?

thanks

ks
--

---
******************************************************************************
* Keith Shapiro     Mayhem   * "Don't wake me up unless the end of the       *
*   [e-mail]      *  universe has good special effects." - Merlin *
******************************************************************************


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:23 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1615] Re: MIDI? Why?

>Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.

Are you really this ignorant ???
Guess you never heard a sound canvas or something like that!
MID and MOD are two completely different worlds, like comparing apples
with stones or you with a genius!
Whow, i'm sorry. That was a mean thing to say.
Just don't say things where you know nothing of.

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:21 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1614] Re: SB Routines

>HELLO:
>
>   Anybody know where can I find SB routines for
>programming. I'm a computer science student and I
>need them.

Try alt.pc.soundcards or something like that.

Joost.



-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:20 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1613] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

>>> How many towns of 5000 have a local SLiP provider though? ;)
>>HeHeHe. You win that round. In the U.S. not many towns of 50,000 have an
>>internet provider at all, let alone PPP/SLIP.
>
>They just set up a few months ago so PPP won't be available for about 45
>days.  In the maritimes of Canada we now have area wide coverage, meaning
>no matter where you live in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI, or
>Newfoundland, you can get Internet access.

Hello !!!
We're on the INERTIA list here, remember ???

Joost.


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:17 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1612] Re: Inertia 1.21

>What advantages does 1.21 offer over 1.20 (mine) and where can I get it
>from? (preferably near the UK - I know there are probably loads of sites in
>the US, and although these would be helpful, I would like max. downloading
>speed)

1.21 gives you full s3m panning support.
And the internal structure of the player has been changed slightly. This is
done because of the upcoming 1.30, which will (probably) also support xm files.
Don't ask me for ftp sites... :) cos I wouldn't know!

Ch:ilm.


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:43 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1616] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:05 EET,
Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Well, for one thing, a lot of people have things such as MIDI boards or
>external sound modules that can play awesome MIDI with virtually no CPU
>usage.  That is something that most sound cards can't do when playing
>MOD's.

Perhaps they could release the game with MIDI files and provide a way to
use MOD files instead.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 04:45 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1617] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:18 EET,
Jimmy Wan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>special MIDI driver?  Ever hear of the Midas Module Player?  Pretty neat
>piece of software.  It let's you play MOD's and S3M's under any MCI
>device, such as Media Player under Windoze.  If you have a GUS, it uses ~
>0% processing time.  I'm just hoping the Maui version and the AWE-32
>versions are farther along in the developmental stage than I think.

Where can I get it?!?

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 05:44 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1618] Midas

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> Where can I get it?!?

hornet.eng.ufl.edu in the directory /demos/music/programs/misc.  wmidas13.zip


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 06:27 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1620] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Wed, 1 Mar 95 23:36 EET, "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> >Actually, I believe GM is 128.
> How come the GUS comes with 192?
192 is correct. GM is 128 melodic patches + 64 drum patches, so you get a
total of 192 patches. :)

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 06:21 EET
From: "Jesse Ozog <GE>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1619] Re: S3m and GUS Patches

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, DAVE MCCARTER wrote:

>     Does anyone know of a utility to convert GUS patches to WAV or
> VOC.  And then (possibly a separate util) to .SMP (Scream Tracker Samples)?

There should have been a utility called 'Win Convert' that came with your
installation disks for the GUS (assumming you own a GUS from the subject).
I am not sure if it is public domain or not.  Hope this helps.

Jesse Ozog
I-NET: [e-mail]
/es


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 07:14 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1621] Re: SB Routines

> HELLO:
>
>    Anybody know where can I find SB routines for
> programming. I'm a computer science student and I
> need them.
>
    I've seen a few on ftp.eng.ufl.edu. They're all in assembly, but
I imagine you can handle that. I still haven't taken a good look at
them, so I don't know if they're good.






--
+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side,is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 07:37 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1622] Re: AWE-good?

In message <[e-mail]> yo
u write:

>>
>> Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
>> have to run faaaaaaast. :)
>> There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
>> better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
>> And the same vice versa.
>>
>  Well, this isn't necessarily due to the hardware on the soundcard.  It's
>just that the instrument samples that come with one card aren't as well
>done as the samples that come with the other (although this is pretty much
>a preference thing).  I would guess that if you use the same samples on
>both cards, the midi's would sound the same on both.
>  Just a thought.

No.  A lot of the art in MIDI processing is in how certain controllers are
interpreted and how to assign samples to instruments and with which
parameters and how to define envelopes and key splits and key scales and
rate correction rates and........

MIDI is very hardware dependent, it's much more complicated than taking
the samples and mix them together like in MOD.

As far as GUS vs. AWE, I would think that the GUS has a better patch set,
but the AWE's synth engine is more powerful (better interpolation, better
filtering, 32 voices at 44.1 kHz vs. 18 kHz on the GUS (and yes, 32 voices
ARE important for MIDI), and so on...).

>______________________________________________________________________________
>                                   \|/
>      Joe                          - -
>                             >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
>[e-mail]            |                  use the door.
>http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 07:50 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1623] Re: AWE-good?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>> You don't need *any* tsrs for the AWE-32. The only one that I have is a
>> 6k tsr for the ASP chip.
>
>Ok, i'll say it in a different way: if you want to use your card 100%
>you have to use tsr-s. Is that right? (Like that one for ASP)

Stop bitching about this old thing for Christ's sake.  Both cards lack
a hardware MIDI interpreter (and MPU-401 for that matter) so neither
one is suitable for DOS applications (games) with the GM option.
Native support is a different story, but I can't see why each and every
game should have to go through the hassle and support a trizillion
sound cards directly when there's a perfectly adequate industry standard
available and widely accepted (MPU-401).  You need huge and fat and
hassleful TSR's with each of the two and neither one is better than the
other in this respect so please let this rest now.

>> > .....No demos support for AWE.
>>
>> That is also true of the Turtle Beach, Roland, Kruzwil etc. That does not
>> mean the GUS is better.
>
>There are cards for MIDI playing only, these card are not good for demos

You mean they are no good for MOD based demos (this is what you understand
under a demo), however they are excellent (and a lot better than both GUS,
and AWE) for what regular people understand under a demo (MIDI based
multimedia presentations).

>for sure they have an excellent sound when you play midi files. But AWE
>has the ability (or not?) to play FM sounds and it isn't supported by
>demo programmers.

What does the ability to play FM sounds have to do with suitability for
demos?  Are you implying that FM sound is a desirable feature for demo
programmers?

>> > The only point the AWE has, that its 'parents' WERE the standards for
>> > a long time.
>>
>> And they will remain so for a long time to come. The GUS will have it's
>> fans but Gravis is not likely to overtake CL for a long while. It's the
>> same as DOS. It's been with us since 1982. Everybody complains about it
>> but it is still here. Every new operating system *must* support DOS
>> emulation well before it is viable (remember OS/2 1.0?).
>
>You might be right. We sure will see it in 5 years or so, if you had right
>or not. I'll say enough from this 'war', let's wait some years for
>the results. Maybe a new soundcard is coming and both SB and GUS will
>die? Who knows?

DOS will die, that's all.

>Viktor

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 08:37 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1625] Re: MIDI? Why?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
>all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
>got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
>by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
>why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
>
>Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
>        most songs).
>Any instrument you want.
>You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
>It's nowhere near as confusing.
>It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
>        I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
>        equipment.
>
>I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
>saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
>most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
>Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.

Oh man, you're not even serious, are you?  MOD originally was 4 channels,
the instrument samples were 8 bit 16 kHz.  Of course a lot has changed,
but 16 bit samples are still very rare (only ULT and FT2 suppor them).
MIDI is up to 32 channels with samples as good as it gets.  Of course if
you have the junkiest sound card in the universe you won't get much out
of MIDI, seeing that the quality is completely dependent on your hardware,
but with proper h/w, MIDI beats modules any day in terms of playback
quality.  Of course you're right that there are no limitations on the
variety of instruments in MOD, but also GM is only a subset of MIDI.
Conclusion: both MOD and MIDI have their place, MOD is more flexible,
less h/w dependent, but quality wise MIDI wins hands down.  And it's
most certainly not going to "go out of fashion".

>--
>Andrew J Ferrier
>
>Current Quote:
>==============
>
>- Those are sheep, aren't they?
>-- Yes.
>- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
>Monty Python's Flying Circus
>
>Contact Me At:
>==============
>
>32 Wharfenden Way,
>Frimley Green,
>Camberley,
>Surrey,
>GU16 6PJ.
>ENGLAND
>Tel: [phone]
>Email: [e-mail]

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 08:35 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1624] Re: GUS vs SB

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>> On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:
>>
>> >  Gravis Ultrasound: 7
>> >  Creative Labs:     6
>> >  Pro Audio Spectrum:4
>> >  Other (Roland):    1
>> > Two cards:
>> >  SBcompatible + GUS:3
>> > There are more GUS cards than Sond Blasters!
>> > BUT: There are more SB compatible ones than GUS ones.
>> >      About half of the GUSsers and half of the SB owners have both
>> >      cards in his machine...
>> > I think still that we have not enough datas to make a correct
>> > statistics.
>>
>> I think this data is relatively accurate for the people on this list and
>> the people who follow the scene, but as a whole the data is way off.  I'm
>> sure a higher percentage of people who own GUS's follow the demo scene as
>> compared to everybody else with a Soundblaster.  I'm sure I could find
>> several SB owners who have never seen a demo or heard a .mod file.  But
>> then again, who cares.... it's just a survey for fun!
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>> Jacob Cossairt's signature:     ! @   @ ! E-mail: [e-mail].
>US
>> Senior - Bronson High School    !   <   ! RIME: ->5287 or ->DRAGCIT  |  | *
>|
>> Fall '95: Freshman - University ! `---' ! Fidonet: 1:2201/41.4       |--| |
>|
>> of Michigan/ Ann Arbor majoring !!!!!!!!! Echonet: Not anymore!      |  | |
>*
>> in Computer Engineering           WWW: http://kecomp.reshall.umich.edu/~jaco
>b/
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~~
>First of all, the votes collected so far are nowhere near statistically valid.
>I suggest we discuss who this survey is meant to be for i.e.
>
>All sound card owners?
>People who play MODs?
>People who use IPlay?
>Or What?.....

People who read INERTIA-TALK, isn't that obvious?

>Perhaps we could enlist the help of other newsgroups/mail lists etc. ?
>--
>Andrew J Ferrier
>
>Current Quote:
>==============
>
>- Those are sheep, aren't they?
>-- Yes.
>- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
>Monty Python's Flying Circus
>
>Contact Me At:
>==============
>
>32 Wharfenden Way,
>Frimley Green,
>Camberley,
>Surrey,
>GU16 6PJ.
>ENGLAND
>Tel: [phone]
>Email: [e-mail]

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:25 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1572] Re: GUS/SB/Other Update

On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams wrote:

> This message contains a file prepared for transmission using the
> MIME BASE64 transfer encoding scheme. If you are using Pegasus
> Mail or another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to extract
> it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system
> administrator for help.

Can someone tell mehow in the hell MIME is supposed to work with Pine?
Everyone keeps telling me that it's supposed to be automatic but it's
not.  I'm using PC-Pine 3.91 for Windows.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:06 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1570] Re: High IRQ

On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

> So I tried it. I couldn't sleep till 03:00 AM, but I haven't discovered
> all the functions yet. I tried to use an IRQ greater than 7, but
> it didn't work, so I tried DOS4GW v1.97 but it still didn't work.
> I have a MAX and it's ok with autodetect. I think somebody asked
> for the info.

I know this is off topic, but if I have any software that uses an old
version of DOS4GW, is the newest version supposed to be better, and/or
able to replace the old one?  Can I just kill an old DOS4GW and stick in
a newer version?


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:18 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1571] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> When the long promised, new O.S. which meets your definition arrives,
> then we will all be happy campers. But where does that leave hardware
> such as the Gravis Ultrasound? Currently it's Windows driver does not
> take advantage of the GF1 for playing mods. MOD4WIN which dutifully uses
> the wave driver shortchanges the GUS owner precisely because of that. If
> MOD4WIN needs to maximize the potential of the GUS, then you will have to
> write some hardware specific code for it. Now we are back to square one.
> This is not the fault of MOD4WIN but more due to the fact that Microsoft
> could not forsee (or care, probably) that someone would want to play mods
> on a GUS (or an AWE-32 for that matter).

Well, there are ways to work around this.  Why not make a program that
converts modules into MIDI files, and plays them back as such, with a
special MIDI driver?  Ever hear of the Midas Module Player?  Pretty neat
piece of software.  It let's you play MOD's and S3M's under any MCI
device, such as Media Player under Windoze.  If you have a GUS, it uses ~
0% processing time.  I'm just hoping the Maui version and the AWE-32
versions are farther along in the developmental stage than I think.
>


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:27 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1573] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Ng Cheng Kiang wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 95 04:39 EET, "Cuthalion / Sliced Bread" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> > > IMHO, even on a GUS, they (the MIDIs) don't sound quite as good as compared
> > > to them being played on PLAYMIDI or Windoze players. Wonder why. I do agree
> >     I would assume that this is due to: Flakinesses in the loader,
> > and: the fact that it only uses 16 channels.  I think PlayMidi defaults
> > to 22. :)
> Ah...so that's why. Oh well, v1.x might be much better. :)

Speaking of PLAYMIDI, does anyone know how to get it to play on another
sound card?  I've got a turtle beach maui, and I would love to have it
play under DOS.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:28 EET
From: Marko Haapam{ki <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1574] Sound card statics...


Hi!
You were asking about the sound card situation... well
I myself have: GUS MAX (1M)
and friends:
1 GUS MAX (1M) (so including me it makes 2 GUS MAX (1M))
1 GUS MAX (512k) + SB (8bit)
1 SB 16 ASP
1 Logitech SoundMan Games
1 ThunderBoard


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Marko Haapam{ki         | There are three kinds of people,
Vidn{sinkatu 2, 402     | those who can count and
67100 Kokkola           | those who cannot.
Finland                 |
Tel. [phone]   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 20:51 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1628] Re: MIDI? Why?

Hi
    Midi going out of fashion?  I think not!  I have yet to hear a MODule
that even comes close to comparing to MIDI.  A friend of mine who has a roland
played Wing Commander to demonstrate the capabilities.  Mods could not have
done what that roland did!  There might as well have been the entire
Skywalker symphony in the room!  You might have noticed that several companies
have made games that support both the Roland and the SB at the same time so
that we can enjoy both Amazing music and Digital Audio.

_____________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter                 [e-mail]
                 "Live Long and Render"



-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:59 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1575] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET,
> Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
> >> >soundcard. :)
> >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> >Actually, I believe GM is 128.
>
> How come the GUS comes with 192?

I believe that the GUS was also designed to emulate the MT-32.  This may
have caused them to put some more patches in.  My only other thoughts
would be:

1) it is GS compatible, but I don't believe it is.

2) multisamples?  But that wouldn't explaing a greater # of patches jsut
a greater # of samples.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 11:35 EET
From: [e-mail] (STIMPY)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1581] GUS vs. SB(and such)

->   Ok... Here's a simple one.
->
->   Who has an SB(or compatible) and who has a GUS?

SB 16 for me.

Jason

"Hello, I'm the talking parrot, please talk to me!"
(oh, I was hoping for a 16-bit version <sigh>)


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 01:15 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1630] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)


On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
> >
> > Because it is the best, most compatible card for general use. If you are a
> > mod freak you buy a GUS. If you are a midi freak you buy a Sound Canvas if
> > you are a midi freak who likes to upload your own samples you buy a TB
> > Monterey.
>
> Not really.  The Turtle Beach Monterey is basically a Turtle Beach Rio
> attached to a Turtle beach Tahiti.  The samples are sent via the MIDI
> interface and it is extremely slow.
>

That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey. I
believe that the MIDI engine on the TB Monterey is superior to the other
two and the TB Monterey is about 9 db quieter than the AWE-32 and about
14 db guieter than the GUS. So I would Imagine that for the best midi
quality (not including pro external modules) with the ability to upload
samples would be the Monterey. If using your own samples is not a
requirement, then the Multisound Classic and the Roland Sound Canvas
would top my list.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 01:08 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1629] Re: Midas

On Fri, 3 Mar 95 05:44 EET,
Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> Where can I get it?!?
>hornet.eng.ufl.edu in the directory /demos/music/programs/misc.  wmidas13.zip

I got this and wow!  Midas Player rules!  People told me MOD4WIN was good?!?

It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:43 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1594] Re: SB Routines

In message <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> HELLO:
>
>    Anybody know where can I find SB routines for
> programming. I'm a computer science student and I
> need them.
>
Creative Labs sell a programming kit. Contact them for info. I would give
you the phone no. but I don't know which country you live in.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:44 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1603] Re: SB Routines

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Creative Labs sell a programming kit. Contact them for info. I would give
> you the phone no. but I don't know which country you live in.

I think the whole point here, is that no one wants to shell out the $$$
for the Creative Labs SDK.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:51 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1605] Midas Module Player

Umm, OK I tracked it down.  If you want the newest version of Midas, go
to /demos/music/programs/misc.  It's called wmidas13.zip


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:45 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1604] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI?

As I understand it, this list is a forum for fans and users of Iplay to
chat about Iplay and digital music and whatever other subjects interest
them including but not limited to mod and midi formats. BTW, Iplay has the
capability to play midis. So does the new Cubic Player.

> ........................Let's face it, if you've
> got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better.

Not true.

> .....................................I was appalled
> by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16).

A plain SB-16 playing midi is about two steps above a pc speaker. It is
NOT the card to judge midis. Go grab the new Cubic Player and a set of
GUS patches and you will have quasi-wavetable midi playback.

> .......................... If MODs can do it,
> why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
>
> Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
>         most songs).
> Any instrument you want.
> You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
> It's nowhere near as confusing.
> It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
>         I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
>         equipment.
>

You forgot the limitations. 8bit samples, massive cpu overhead and large
file sizes. So what's your point?


> I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
> most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.

Nonsense. Most professional musicians (you know, the guys whose CDs you
buy and whose music you listen to on the radio) use midi synths for many
instrument sounds. They don't use mods. Now calm down, go get educated
about the different digital music formats, learn *all* the pros and cons
and then come back with some constructive comments not hysterical rants.

A good place to start would be the FAQs from alt.binaries.sounds.mods and
alt.binaries.sounds.midi.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 03:06 EET
From: The Tick <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1631] Re: GUS/SB/Other Update

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams wrote:
>
> > This message contains a file prepared for transmission using the
> > MIME BASE64 transfer encoding scheme. If you are using Pegasus
> > Mail or another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to extract
> > it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system
> > administrator for help.
>
> Can someone tell mehow in the hell MIME is supposed to work with Pine?
> Everyone keeps telling me that it's supposed to be automatic but it's
> not.  I'm using PC-Pine 3.91 for Windows.

MIME BASE 64 doesn't work with Pine 3.91 on any platform.


-- Brandon
    ____
 __/____\__  Brandon Browning
 \   _____/  Student Systems Administrator   All opinions are mine
 /\  ____/\  Pacific University              unless otherwise stated.
/__\____/__\ Forest Grove, Oregon


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:57 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1606] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>
> Is the GUS or the GUS Max capable of multisampling?  I know my Maui is,
> and I also know that things sound a lot worse when you only have one or
> two samples per instrument.
>
Yes. The GUS patches are all multisampled. Patchmaker allows you to do
that very easily. The same applies to the AWE-32.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 23:59 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1607] Re: GUS vs SB

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> First of all, the votes collected so far are nowhere near statistically valid.
> I suggest we discuss who this survey is meant to be for i.e.
>
> All sound card owners?
> People who play MODs?
> People who use IPlay?
> Or What?.....
>
> Perhaps we could enlist the help of other newsgroups/mail lists etc. ?

Uhh, I think the whole point here is that the survey is for MOD players
in general.  That's why it's on this mailing list.  Since we obviously
aren't solely concentrating on IPLAY?  But I'm sure you could've figured
that out all by yourself.


-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:44 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1626] Re: AWE-good?

> DOS will die, that's all.
>
> >Viktor
>
> Jensi

I agree with you Jensi in most of your points. Your right. ThanX.

Viktor




-----------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 18:01 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1627] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Thu, 2 Mar 95 21:42 EET, "Andrew Ferrier" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Isn't this supposed to be an Inertia (i.e. MOD) list? So why are we
> all talking (except me of course!) about MIDI? Let's face it, if you've
> got a decent quality soundcard MODs are infinitely better. I was appalled
> by how rubbish MIDIs were on my soundcard (an SB-16). If MODs can do it,
Of coz. SB/SBPro/SB16/SB compatibles all do MIDI in FM, which of coz, suck.
If you have a good wavetable card/module like the Roland SCC-1, SC-88, they
all will sound better than the best MOD.

> why not MIDI? (not that I want it to). Just look at the advantages:
> Up to about 20 tracks with some advanced formats (although 4 is enough for
>         most songs).
With MIDI, up to 256 is no problem. All depends on how capable your
module/card is, its polyphony etc.

> Any instrument you want.
MIDI is not restricted to GM/GS. There are proprietry standards as well,
and these are used on the various non-GM synths which professionals use.

> You don't need a keyboard to do it properly.
I agree.

> It's nowhere near as confusing.
MIDI is easier to create. Sequencers normally have a standard notation
display mode, which makes its easy, even if you are to enter a MIDI file
note by note using a mouse.

> It can run on almost any modern PC (even with a PC Speaker, although
>         I will admit that the quality is not good) i.e you need no special
>         equipment.
This I agree.

> I know, I know, all you lucky people out there with AWE-32s, GUSes etc. are
> saying 'but we get brilliant quality'. Perhaps, but it's still not as good as
> most good-quality MOD-files. And it is massively more restrictive.
> Let's face it, MIDI is going to go out of fashion.
MIDI will NOT get phased out. Look at the increasing number of soundcards
which supports MPU-401, General MIDI, wavetable etc. And out of the
soundcard scene, any decent music keyboard will come with a MIDI interface,
and all synthesizers and music workstations come with MIDI capability.


Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 06:19 EET
From: Jacob Cossairt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1632] MIDI? Why?

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> but with proper h/w, MIDI beats modules any day in terms of playback
> quality.  Of course you're right that there are no limitations on the
> variety of instruments in MOD, but also GM is only a subset of MIDI.
> Conclusion: both MOD and MIDI have their place, MOD is more flexible,
> less h/w dependent, but quality wise MIDI wins hands down.  And it's
> most certainly not going to "go out of fashion".

Want a good example of MIDI quality and variety of samples?  Listen to
some Nine Inch Nails music!  Trent makes most of the music with MIDI
keyboards and Macintoshs, added with some live drums, guitar, and Trent's
nice lyrics of course.

Inertia Player doesn't support MIDI, does it?  Somebody just said it
does.  I know it has an option for General MIDI, but I think that was
just a trick to try to play .mod's with my SCC-1.

______________________________________________________________________________
Jacob Cossairt's signature:     ! @   @ ! E-mail: [e-mail]
Senior - Bronson High School    !   <   ! RIME: ->5287 or ->DRAGCIT  |  | * |
Fall '95: Freshman - University ! `---' ! Fidonet: 1:2201/41.4       |--| | |
of Michigan/ Ann Arbor majoring !!!!!!!!! Echonet: Not anymore!      |  | | *
in Computer Engineering           WWW: http://kecomp.reshall.umich.edu/~jacob/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 06:30 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1633] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>-> Why is it that everybody here thinks there is only 2 different sound
>-> cards in this world?  There are a lot of other cards besides SB and
>-> GUS.  What about PAS, Tahiti, Roland, AudioTrix, Ensoniq, Monterey,
>-> Tropez, WSS...  The world is not black and white only!
>
>-> Jensi
>
>You forgot the PC Speaker and the Tandy DAC.

Nah, that's what the dots were for ;-)

>Jason
>(don't hit :-)

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 06:36 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1634] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303165320.3773A-100000@earth> you write:

>
>On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
>> >
>> > Because it is the best, most compatible card for general use. If you are a
>> > mod freak you buy a GUS. If you are a midi freak you buy a Sound Canvas if
>> > you are a midi freak who likes to upload your own samples you buy a TB
>> > Monterey.
>>
>> Not really.  The Turtle Beach Monterey is basically a Turtle Beach Rio
>> attached to a Turtle beach Tahiti.  The samples are sent via the MIDI
>> interface and it is extremely slow.
>>
>
>That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
>optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
>Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
>to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey. I

Nah, you forgot the AudioTrix Pro, the Maui, and the Tropez.

>believe that the MIDI engine on the TB Monterey is superior to the other
>two and the TB Monterey is about 9 db quieter than the AWE-32 and about
>14 db guieter than the GUS. So I would Imagine that for the best midi
>quality (not including pro external modules) with the ability to upload
>samples would be the Monterey. If using your own samples is not a
>requirement, then the Multisound Classic and the Roland Sound Canvas
>would top my list.
>
>--
>========================
>Sam
>[e-mail]
>========================

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 06:47 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1635] Re: AWE-good?

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

> > > Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
> > > have to run faaaaaaast. :)
> >
> > Please e-mail it to me or tell me where I can get it.
>
> It's on GUS install disks, if you had a GUS you had hidnseek.mid too.
> I will mail it tomorro, ok?

Found it. It was lurking in the GUS patch subdirectory. Thanks.

I examined that file. It is a very short <30sec six track midi with no
percussion. Two of the tracks are the ghostie (FX Goblin) but were mapped
to Choir. the other four tracks are warm pad, sweep pad, brightness and
fantasia (mapped to new age). There are only two controllers that are
used in this song. Controller 0 which is not a general midi and must have
been used with the external synth originally used to compose it. The
SYSEX that was needed to set up the synth was nowhere to be found. I
would guess it was removed by whowever prepared this file for use with
the Gravis. The only other controller is the standard pan.

This is a very simple midi that is not very demading of the playback
equipment. I played this midi, unmodified, on a Turtle Beach Multisound
Classic, a Roland RAP-10, A GUS MAX, an AWE-32 and a Korg daughterboard
on the AWE-32. Given the usual differences between the different midi
synths, it sounded very nice on all of them. The card that distinguished
itself was the Multisound Classic. The choir patch actually sounded like
a real female choir. All the other cards produced synthesized sound that
was very pleasing nonetheless.

Why it sounded like s**t on the AWE-32 that you used, Victor, I don't
know. I can only speculate that the latest driver upgrade for the AWE-32
(which I have installed) has something to do with it. I have seen several
posts on the soundcard newsgroups to that effect and I noticed some
improvement in midi quality on some of the midis with which I am familiar
after I did the upgrade.

>
> > > There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
> > > better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
> > > And the same vice versa.
> >
> > What software are you using to play them? I use Cakewalk and I tweek the
> > MIDIs for best sound on each card. Remember, MIDI is hardware dependent.
> > I find that many MIDIs sound terrible on my Multisound and Roland until
> > they are properly remapped to General MIDI. I don't think too many people
> > think the Multisound Classic or the Roland are bad MIDI synths:-). Many
> > MIDIs also depend on SYSEX commands to set up the synth. If you are not
> > using the *exact* MIDI synth that the composer used, the SYSEX will be
> > ignored and the tune will sound bad.
>
> Windows: cakewalk
> DOS:  playmidi
>

Good setup.

> > You don't need *any* tsrs for the AWE-32. The only one that I have is a
> > 6k tsr for the ASP chip.
>
> Ok, i'll say it in a different way: if you want to use your card 100%
> you have to use tsr-s. Is that right? (Like that one for ASP)
>

Yes. Same for the GUS.

> > > .....No demos support for AWE.
> >
> > That is also true of the Turtle Beach, Roland, Kruzwil etc. That does not
> > mean the GUS is better.
>
> There are cards for MIDI playing only, these card are not good for demos
> for sure they have an excellent sound when you play midi files. But AWE
> has the ability (or not?) to play FM sounds and it isn't supported by
> demo programmers.
>

I think by "FM" you meant the ability to load mod samples in RAM like the
GUS? If so then you are correct. The mod demo support is not there yet.
It may never be there. But overall, if mod demos are not life or death to
you then the AWE-32 is a more sophisticated card than the GUS. Also more
expensive right now. This may change.

> > Because doom, doom2, heretic, descent, etc. all support the AWE-32 and
> > they sound a lot better than on the GUS.
>
> You are the only one saying that. I'd say both are same.

Ok, matter of taste.

>
> > Did you keep it long enough to understand it's full potential?
>
> I had it for about 10 days. We (me and other guys) are also testing
> sound cards for hungarian computer magazines, so I also had a Tropez,
> a Maui, right now I have my MAX in its box and I'm testing GUS ACE +
> SBPro in my comp (until my brother puts back his testcard: Roland SCC1.).
> GUS and AWE are not the only soundcards I heard beleive me.
>

Good. I have no problem with someone making an educated choice that
differs from mine (as you are). I do have a problem with those that are
fanatics about their hardware when it's the only thing that they've ever
tried.

> > > The only point the AWE has, that its 'parents' WERE the standards for
> > > a long time.
> >
> > And they will remain so for a long time to come. The GUS will have it's
> > fans but Gravis is not likely to overtake CL for a long while. It's the
> > same as DOS. It's been with us since 1982. Everybody complains about it
> > but it is still here. Every new operating system *must* support DOS
> > emulation well before it is viable (remember OS/2 1.0?).
>
> You might be right. We sure will see it in 5 years or so, if you had right
> or not. I'll say enough from this 'war', let's wait some years for
> the results. Maybe a new soundcard is coming and both SB and GUS will
> die? Who knows?
>

I hope that this wasn't a "war". I think it was a decent and educational
debate that at least I learned from. I hope others on this list have too
and aren't too mad at us for the use of the bandwidth and space in their
mailboxes.

> Viktor
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 07:08 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1636] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
> >optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
> >Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
> >to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey.
>
> Nah, you forgot the AudioTrix Pro, the Maui, and the Tropez.
>

I forgot about the Maui and the Tropez. I was totally unaware that the
ATP was capable of that. Could you perhaps give us a short list of the
ATP's wavetable characteristics? Such as the ROM size, RAM as shipped/max
useable and any unique features of the card? It sounds interesting :-)

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 07:20 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1637] Re: Midas

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Mar 95 05:44 EET,
> Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> Where can I get it?!?
> >hornet.eng.ufl.edu in the directory /demos/music/programs/misc.  wmidas13.zip
>
> I got this and wow!  Midas Player rules!  People told me MOD4WIN was good?!?
>
> It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
> Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
> couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!
>

Your statement is very confusing to me Chris. You *seem* to be comparing
one player's performance in Windows to another while you are in a DOS
session under Windows. Not apples to apples. I'm not familiar with Midas
but could it be using the GF1 while M4W is using the wave driver?

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:25 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1639] Re: Midas

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> >> Where can I get it?!?
> >hornet.eng.ufl.edu in the directory /demos/music/programs/misc.  wmidas13.zip
>
> I got this and wow!  Midas Player rules!  People told me MOD4WIN was good?!?
>
> It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
> Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
> couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!

OK, now that you got it, can you please bug the hell out of the author of
this fine piece of software, so he makes a version that works with a
Turtle Beach Maui, before he starts doing AWE-crap?  I really would like
a MOD player that takes no processing time.(Well almost).


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:19 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1638] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> Oh man, you're not even serious, are you?  MOD originally was 4 channels,
> the instrument samples were 8 bit 16 kHz.  Of course a lot has changed,
> but 16 bit samples are still very rare (only ULT and FT2 suppor them).
> MIDI is up to 32 channels with samples as good as it gets.  Of course if
> you have the junkiest sound card in the universe you won't get much out
> of MIDI, seeing that the quality is completely dependent on your hardware,
> but with proper h/w, MIDI beats modules any day in terms of playback
> quality.  Of course you're right that there are no limitations on the
> variety of instruments in MOD, but also GM is only a subset of MIDI.
> Conclusion: both MOD and MIDI have their place, MOD is more flexible,
> less h/w dependent, but quality wise MIDI wins hands down.  And it's
> most certainly not going to "go out of fashion".

Don't forget, some of the newer sound modules have support for loading in
your own samples, changing them, etc.  So do most new synths.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:43 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1641] Re: Midas

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> > I got this and wow!  Midas Player rules!  People told me MOD4WIN was good?!?
> >
> > It's a hunk of junk compared to Midas!!!  I'm in Windows not in a DOS
> > Window and Midas is playing full quality with no slowdown at all.  MOD4WIN
> > couldn't even play smoothly at 8bit, 11khz, mono when I was in DOS!
>
> Your statement is very confusing to me Chris. You *seem* to be comparing
> one player's performance in Windows to another while you are in a DOS
> session under Windows. Not apples to apples. I'm not familiar with Midas
> but could it be using the GF1 while M4W is using the wave driver?

You got it.  But he's not in a DOS Session under either one.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:27 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1640] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
> optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
> Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
> to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey. I
> believe that the MIDI engine on the TB Monterey is superior to the other
> two and the TB Monterey is about 9 db quieter than the AWE-32 and about
> 14 db guieter than the GUS. So I would Imagine that for the best midi
> quality (not including pro external modules) with the ability to upload
> samples would be the Monterey. If using your own samples is not a
> requirement, then the Multisound Classic and the Roland Sound Canvas
> would top my list.

I don't know how the noise specs compare, but the Turtle Beach Maui
allows much more rapid sample uploading at a much lower price, sans
digital audio.  I also know it can take up to 8 MB of additional Memory
which I assume should be enough for almost anyone.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 09:54 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1642] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303224923.25352D-100000@earth> you write:

>On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:
>
>> >That wasn't the point. The point is that every piece of hardware is
>> >optimized for a particular use. The TB Monterey has a flaw, so be it.
>> >Nothing is perfect. The only three cards that I am aware of that allow you
>> >to use custom samples are the Gravis, the AWE-32 and the TB Monterey.
>>
>> Nah, you forgot the AudioTrix Pro, the Maui, and the Tropez.
>>
>
>I forgot about the Maui and the Tropez. I was totally unaware that the
>ATP was capable of that. Could you perhaps give us a short list of the
>ATP's wavetable characteristics? Such as the ROM size, RAM as shipped/max
>useable and any unique features of the card? It sounds interesting :-)
>
>--
>========================
>Sam
>[e-mail]
>========================

Ok, you asked for it.  The AudioTrix Pro is characterized by its two main
chips, the Yamaha YMF278B (also known as OPL4) and the CS4231.

The CS4231 is a multimedia spec compatible digital audio codec/mixer that
provides two modes of operation.  Mode 1 is pin and register compatible
with Windows Sound System (AD1848) and provides stereo DAC's and ADC's
for record/playback up to 48 kHz 16 bit stereo.  There are also a line
input, an aux input, and an attenuated mic input.  All inputs can be
mixed, attenuated, and muted independently in realtime.  Mode 2 provides
several enhancements over the AD1848, most notably ADPCM de-/compression
in hardware (0 CPU utilization), an additional aux input, a mono input,
a mono output, and support for 2 independent DMA channels for simultaneous
playback and capture of waveforms.

The YMF278B is a combined FM/wavetable synthesizer chip that is register
compatible with OPL2 and OPL3 and adds a 24 voice polyphony wavetable
synthesizer.  In combined mode up to 44 voices can be synthesized
simultaneously.  The wavetable synthesizer provides independent LFO's,
envelop generators, and filters for each voice.  It can handle 8, 12,
and 16 bit waveforms for any sample.  Samples can be taken from ROM or
RAM, the combined address space is 4 MB.

The AudioTrix Pro ships standard with a 2 MB ROM that contains all GM
patches and drum sounds in a compressed format.  It also adds a custom
ASIC to emulate MPU-401, GM, and SB in hardware.

The following modes of operation and compatiblity are available:

* CS4231 (mode 2 of CS4231)
* WSS (mode 1 of CS4231)
* SB (custom ASIC)
* OPL4 wavetable (OPL4)
* SB Pro music (OPL3 mode of the OPL4)
* AdLib (OPL2 mode of the OPL4)
* MPU-401 (custom ASIC)
* GM (Windows drivers or through MPU-401)

The custom ASIC is controlled by an onboard MicroController that is
software programmable, therefore updating the firmware is as simple
as downloading a file from the ftp site and replacing the old one
with it.  I have done this twice already and got a better soundcard
each time.

In addition to the above mentioned features, a RAM daughterboard and
a DSP daughterboard are available too.

The RAM daughterboard extents or replaces the ROM patches, so single
patches, or the complete patch set can be replaced to the customers
liking.  Currently, only a 512 KB daughterboard is available, 1 MB,
2 MB, and 4 MB daughterboards are planned.

The DSP daughterboard comes in two variations.  The standard version
processes only the output of the OPL4 (both FM and wavetable).  Up
to 3 effects can be applied at the same time: Reverb, Chorus, and one
of Flange, Pitch shift, Delay, Stereo Delay, Equalizer, 3-D sound,
and SRS (Surround sound).  Each effects is controlled through several
parameters that can be adjusted realtime and provide virtually
infinite variations of the sound.  The second version of the DSP does
all of the above, and additionall processes the line in and mic in
ports.

Various daughterboards to interface several types of CD-ROM drivers
are also available.

The card has an internal connector for CD audio in, and external
connectors for line in, mic in, audio out, and a combined MIDI/
joystick port.  The combined port can be used either for a single
joystick + MIDI IN/OUT/THRU or for dual joysticks.  To interface
MIDI equipment, only the proper cable and no breakout box with
additional circuitry is required.

Ok, this is all pretty much from a techinical point of view, seeing
that I'm a technical person ;-)  For the subjective/sound side I can
only say it kicks royally.  I have this board for about 8 months now
and have been very happy with it.

Finally, for those of you who would like to find out more here is
two ways to do that:

1. ftp://ftp.mediatrix.com/pub/mediatrix contains a number of press
   releases and spec sheet type of docs about the AT Pro.  Software
   updates are also released there and are available to the public
   for free.
2. Call 1-800-820-TRIX and ask them for their free demo CD.  This
   CD in recorded entirely on a standard AudioTrix Pro and
   demonstrates the capabilities and potential of the card.  It
   gives a brief history about PC sound with numerous examples,
   from PC speaker to GM and h/w ADPCM.  The second part contains
   GM tracks played on the AT Pro.  The CD is very informative and
   I recommend everybody to call and ask for a copy.

Hope this gives you an idea...

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 11:33 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1645] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

>
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, there are ways to work around this.  Why not make a program that
> > converts modules into MIDI files, and plays them back as such, with a
> > special MIDI driver?  Ever hear of the Midas Module Player?  Pretty neat
> > piece of software.  It let's you play MOD's and S3M's under any MCI
> > device, such as Media Player under Windoze.  If you have a GUS, it uses ~
> > 0% processing time.  I'm just hoping the Maui version and the AWE-32
> > versions are farther along in the developmental stage than I think.
>
> That has it's problems too. How do you handle non-instrument tracks in a
> mod (such as speech)? Additionally, you would then be limited by the
> quality of the midi synth. This becomes a real problem for FM cards.
>
> I am not familiar with Midas but I would suspect it would not be as
> accurate as MOD4WIN. I also suspect that the overall results would be too
> far removed from the original work. I really don't know since I have not
> tried it.
>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================
Why doesn't someone write an MCI MOD Player for Windows. Full Stop. No playing
around with converting to MIDI. That way you can use any interface (including
the brilliant Media Player) you like to play them.

P.S. 'Full Stop' = 'Period' in America
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Current Quote:
==============

- Those are sheep, aren't they?
-- Yes.
- So, um .... Why are they up in the trees?
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Contact Me At:
==============

32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND
Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 11:44 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1646] Sound Card Votes

                        The Sound Card Wars
                       =====================

                       Creative Labs   - 11
                       Advanced Gravis - 12
                       Mediavision     - 4
                       Other           - 4


    This is the total today for the votes I have received.


Send your vote for your sound card to:
                [e-mail]





--
+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side,is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 12:33 EET
From: Zyxt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1647] Re: MIDI? Why?

>
> I thought ALL of the sounds were synthesized?  The drums kinda sound
> synthesized.
>
  Definteley not all of them.  With Trent's later albums, he uses many
samples of real instruments.  Often, if a sample sounds synthesized, it's
because he takes a sample of a real instrument, then runs it through any
number of a wide variety of effects processors, etc.
 Other topic:  :) :) :)
  As for the arguement about midi vs. mod, when you get right down to it,
wouldn't you say that they are actually quite similiar, if not virtually
the same?  In both cases, you have a sound module of some kind (whether it
be internal or external) that has samples and sounds on it. Some modules
allow you to load in new sounds and some modules don't.  A program of some
sort simply sends messages to this device telling it how to play those
sounds.  This is the case with both midi's and mod's.  A midi player and a
mod player can both, for example, tell the sound device in question to
play a sound and bend the pitch up while playing it.
  Well, anyway, my main question is how anyone can say one is better than
the other (MOD vs. MIDI).  Currently, a MIDI song may have a higher
sound/sample quality than a MOD (well, when comparing my Roland to my
GUS), but that is only because the typical MIDI sound module has 16bit 44k
samples or sounds (or even higher), and the typical MOD now days uses 8
bit 22k or 11k samples or something. However, one could easily enough load
up 16bit 44k samples with a MOD, given enough RAM on the soundcard being
used.  If the exact same samples were used in a MOD and in a MIDI (i.e.
sample a few sounds from my Roland as 16bit 44k samples and load them into
the GUS, assuming they would all fit), you could produce a song that
sounds exactly the same on both.

  Sorry if I ranted and raved too much and just added to the already huge
amount of mail received on this list.  I just had to ask what all this "one
vs. the other" debate was all about.  (Gosh, I don't even know if I want
to send this mail now, for fear that flaming will ensue.  But I spent so
much time writing it, I might as well.)  ;)

  And someone mentioned that Trent uses MIDI and Macintoshes.  Just in
case anyone is interested, I read a very lengthy interview with Trent
(long time ago), and he explained much of the hardware he uses.  He
records all of his songs to hard disk recorders for storage.  I use this
in my arguement with people about analog sounding better than digital.  My
friend owns Downward Spiral on both mediums (record and CD), and some
people say they can hear a difference between the analog recording
(record) and the digital (CD).  But the entire album was recorded onto a
hard disk before it ever reached either medium, so that "digital" sound
has to be present on both the record and CD.  But this is an arguement for
another time, and one that most likely won't get anywhere (as is dictated
by past arguements, no ever changes their mind). :)

  here, let me put a few more of these just in case... :) :) :) :) :) :)

Later, everyone.  Here's to the future of MIDI's and MOD's: may they live
a peaceful and happy co-existance for many years to come! ...or something
like that...
______________________________________________________________________________
                                   \|/
      Joe                          - -
                             >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
[e-mail]            |                  use the door.
http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---



-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 14:49 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1648] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:59 EET, "Jimmy Wan" <[e-mail]> wrote:


> > >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> > >Actually, I believe GM is 128.
> > How come the GUS comes with 192?
> I believe that the GUS was also designed to emulate the MT-32.  This may
> have caused them to put some more patches in.  My only other thoughts
> would be:
The GUS is both GM and MT-32 (patch level only) compatible.

> 1) it is GS compatible, but I don't believe it is.
> 2) multisamples?  But that wouldn't explaing a greater # of patches jsut
> a greater # of samples.
The reason will be clear if one take a look at the list of patches. 64 of
them are percussion patches (e.g. bass drum, snare, tom etc).

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:11 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1649] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> Why doesn't someone write an MCI MOD Player for Windows. Full Stop. No playing
> around with converting to MIDI. That way you can use any interface (including
> the brilliant Media Player) you like to play them.

Uhh, that's what it is.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:18 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1650] Re: MIDI? Why?

On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Zyxt wrote:

>   Definteley not all of them.  With Trent's later albums, he uses many
> samples of real instruments.  Often, if a sample sounds synthesized, it's
> because he takes a sample of a real instrument, then runs it through any
> number of a wide variety of effects processors, etc.

OK.  Didn't know that.  Not a huge NiN fan anyway.

>   As for the arguement about midi vs. mod, when you get right down to it,
> wouldn't you say that they are actually quite similiar, if not virtually
> the same?  In both cases, you have a sound module of some kind (whether it
> be internal or external) that has samples and sounds on it. Some modules
> allow you to load in new sounds and some modules don't.  A program of some
> sort simply sends messages to this device telling it how to play those
> sounds.  This is the case with both midi's and mod's.  A midi player and a
> mod player can both, for example, tell the sound device in question to
> play a sound and bend the pitch up while playing it.
>   Well, anyway, my main question is how anyone can say one is better than
> the other (MOD vs. MIDI).  Currently, a MIDI song may have a higher
> sound/sample quality than a MOD (well, when comparing my Roland to my
> GUS), but that is only because the typical MIDI sound module has 16bit 44k
> samples or sounds (or even higher), and the typical MOD now days uses 8
> bit 22k or 11k samples or something. However, one could easily enough load
> up 16bit 44k samples with a MOD, given enough RAM on the soundcard being
> used.  If the exact same samples were used in a MOD and in a MIDI (i.e.
> sample a few sounds from my Roland as 16bit 44k samples and load them into
> the GUS, assuming they would all fit), you could produce a song that
> sounds exactly the same on both.

I agree totally, except for the fact that mos high quality MIDI boards
and/or modules or whatever have software that allows a higher number of
channels without degradation of quality.  For examplle even the Turtle
Beach Maui can do 16 channels at 66150, 24 channels at 44100, and 32
channels at 33050.  That's better than the GUS or the AWE-32 to the best
of my knowledge.

>   And someone mentioned that Trent uses MIDI and Macintoshes.  Just in
> case anyone is interested, I read a very lengthy interview with Trent
> (long time ago), and he explained much of the hardware he uses.  He
> records all of his songs to hard disk recorders for storage.  I use this
> in my arguement with people about analog sounding better than digital.  My
> friend owns Downward Spiral on both mediums (record and CD), and some
> people say they can hear a difference between the analog recording
> (record) and the digital (CD).  But the entire album was recorded onto a
> hard disk before it ever reached either medium, so that "digital" sound
> has to be present on both the record and CD.  But this is an arguement for
> another time, and one that most likely won't get anywhere (as is dictated
> by past arguements, no ever changes their mind). :)

Ya, but when pressing to a record or copying onto tape, the last step
becomes analog, while CD's remain in the digital format.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:36 EET
From: Jimmy Wan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1608] Re: GUS vs SB

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jacob Cossairt wrote:

> I think this data is relatively accurate for the people on this list and
> the people who follow the scene, but as a whole the data is way off.  I'm
> sure a higher percentage of people who own GUS's follow the demo scene as
> compared to everybody else with a Soundblaster.  I'm sure I could find
> several SB owners who have never seen a demo or heard a .mod file.  But
> then again, who cares.... it's just a survey for fun!
                            ^^^^ ^^^^ ^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^

Exactly.


-----------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:36 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1609] Re: GUS vs SB

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

[Sound card tally]
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> First of all, the votes collected so far are nowhere near statistically valid.
> I suggest we discuss who this survey is meant to be for i.e.
>
> All sound card owners?
> People who play MODs?
> People who use IPlay?
> Or What?.....
>
> Perhaps we could enlist the help of other newsgroups/mail lists etc. ?

Andrew, it appears that you just recently joined this list. To fill
you in, this survey was intended to find out GUS vs. SB compatible
statistics for the members of this list. It is not intended as a survey
of the known universe for a Ph.D. thesis.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


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